(Disclaimer: This transcipt was made using AI technology. Please excuse any errors.)

Music 0:00
Welcome to the Atheists in Recovery Podcast, where we talk about finding hope in recovery. And now your host, Dr. Adina Silvestri.

Adina Silvestri 0:11
Bonjour Guys, and Welcome to Episode 63 of the Atheists in Recovery podcast. And today we are talking to Rob Imbeault, from Ottawa, Canada, and I'm excited for you to learn more about my next guest. And this episode, we get into a lot. We talk about repressed childhood memories, we talk about addiction, and pain and masking that pain by using drugs and alcohol and overworking and doing all the things that we do to run from pain. And so Rob has a very interesting story. And he'll talk a little bit about how his life just seemed to picture perfect in the beginning, I mean, he was very successful entrepreneur, so much so that he even met the queen, which you don't get to say very often, but but behind closed doors, there was him he was fighting some real demons. And so he talks about what that was like to have to run this very successful company, but not being able to, to lead not effectively. And just feeling like he was worthless, even amongst his co workers that he's known forever. You know, his co workers that but he hired that we're looking to him for leadership but but he couldn't lead and so he talks a lot about, you know, what worked in recovery, what didn't work in recovery, he gives some great tools throughout his throughout his journey, some some really good books, he'll mention and I'll link to those in the podcast, little courses own book, before I leave you, and so on to our guest, Rob Imbeault. Rob, is a successful entrepreneur and the author of the number one Amazon bestseller before I leave you a memoir on suicide, addiction and healing. He is currently a columnist for the good men project and lives in Ottawa, Canada, with his wife and two daughters. Alright guys, onto the show. Rob Imbeault, welcome to the show.

Rob Imbeault 2:38
Thank you so much for having me.

Adina Silvestri 2:40
So I wanted to start this conversation with a fun fact that I learned about you. And that is that you met the queen. Can you tell us a little more about that?

Rob Imbeault 2:51
Yeah, sure. Very interesting. Meet, I was a part of a charity event that my business partner founded and I became co chair of, you may have heard of it now because our now Prime Minister once fought in it. So it was a charity boxing event. And we raised a lot of money. And with those events, the beneficiary was the Cancer Foundation. And the foundation asked if I would be on their board to help with fundraising. And I was pretty young at the time. So they wanted fresh eyes pretty much. So I joined their board and being on their board had a few advantages, one of which was they wanted to recognize my contribution to the community and invited me to meet the queen, which was pretty, pretty cool. And it's, it's funny, because it happened at a weird time in my life, as I was kind of sinking, which we'll probably talk about now a little bit. And yeah, it was a weird time for me to meet the queen and our Prime Minister, our then Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, so just yeah, strange confluence of events.

Adina Silvestri 4:09
Yeah, that is so interesting. So there you are meeting the Queen and the Prime Minister at the time, where was your head? Did you did you have any, like epiphany like, wow, you know, I've made it or I've, yeah, we were you.

Rob Imbeault 4:24
Just my mind was split into many, many ways. I've worked so hard to get to where I was to achieve some form of monetary success and business success. But I was I was really, I was very unhappy. And I was having a lot of trouble there. So it was just, you know, people use the word surreal, but it was it was it was definitely you know, real adjacent. Said, really know why I was there kind of, you know, didn't feel like I was worthy for sure. So yeah, my headspace was kind Weird then. And I described that in my book.

Adina Silvestri 5:04
Yeah, and we're definitely going to talk more about your book before I leave you. But I'm wondering, before we do that, if you could give us a little bit of a little bit of background about, about you and your childhood, and it's always it always interests me to hear about guests, deepest roots, you know, where, where they formed this identity from their childhood, if you could talk a little about that, maybe? Yeah,

Rob Imbeault 5:27
sure, was born in the south sort of Montreal. So I'm Canadian. And mom left my father when I was, I think, 18 months or very young. Anyway, there was an abusive relationship and bomb kind of, I'll say kidnapped but took off while he was at work, and didn't let him know where I was for a little while. So I guess maybe that's the exact definition of it, maybe. But, so mom left, but they worked it out that, you know, I would go spend, I moved six hours away, that I would spend summers and Christmas with him. And over the years with that was pretty much try. And with the agreement that mom mom did not actually accept any child support. So we were pretty, pretty poor. Like the definition of pores when if you miss meals, and we definitely miss miss meals or relied on charities and so forth. And that, so yeah, living with mom and visiting dad, and I liked visiting dad. So you know, it was it was good until until it wasn't. And, yeah, I just sort of, yeah, went to school. And something tragic happened, unfortunately, when I was a child that changed my love for school. And so school kind of fell by the wayside. I did somewhat well in high school, but just chose a different path. That was pretty truculent throughout my early adult life. And that lived in retail, you know, did all that and then just sort of clawed my way to going to night school and, and earning some diplomas, and then getting hired doing really well. And then starting my own business while taking over my boss and, and starting my own business. And, and that worked out really well. And it worked. And so started three businesses, you know, some tomorrow, some were marginally successful, and one was pretty good, successful, and one was largely successful. So yeah, and I retired in 2017, when I was 45, because we had a daughter, who is six months old, and I was tired of spending 10 minutes a day with her. So yeah, and then through that, some a few things that which I'm sure we'll talk about came to pass

Adina Silvestri 7:54
a few things that came to pass. Yes. Yeah. Let's talk about this Amazon bestseller before I leave you, which actually started as a goodbye letter. And I'm wondering if you could take us through your recovery journey.

Rob Imbeault 8:10
Sure. So that was kind of just giving you a baseline of my life. And before I get to the darkness, I generally I give a happiness disclaimer. Just something I mean, I've recently where, you know, my life is filled with joy and, you know, an abundance of gratitude and I just sort of live moment to moment. But in the early stages of building what has become a very large company, a memory of being violently raped when I was eight years old. Something I want to say repressed something I knew happened. But it came incredibly clear. So came out. It was like a flirty, blurry photograph, becoming a full length HD movie, replaying in my head. And that's kind of sent me spiraling. And I decided that I wanted to die. And yeah, I began writing this goodbye letter trying to explain to everyone why I had decided to end my life. So I had something to leave someone. And I decided to do it. I'll leave Leaving Las Vegas. So I just started drinking and I fell in love with the love drug. I discovered MDMA and, and speed and cocaine to help me sustain that love. All the good things. Yeah. And I spiraled to a series of rock bottoms. And then somehow, you know, just sort of turn it around, decided I had these moments of stepping forward and a lot of you know, falling back and sort of finding my way to not wanting to die and to where I am now, you know, where not only do I not want to die? You know, I love every moment of life. Yeah. Yeah,

Adina Silvestri 10:05
I wonder if we could take a couple steps back and, and kind of bring us through when, when this blurry photo, I believe you said turned into it an HD movie sort of film. When did that How old were you? When that happened?

Rob Imbeault 10:22
I was 38 I believe. Okay. So, I mean, I, you know, attributed to my success. I was older, I was in a loving relationship. And I had great friends, I had a business, I had all I checked all the boxes of happiness, but I wasn't really happy. And in hindsight, building those businesses and doing that, well, I was addicted to work, you know, I, I, it was just such a blatant addiction, you know, I, I such such horrible relationships, because I didn't give them any investment. I didn't give them any time, you know, just, you know, I was obsessed with work and obsessed with getting the things and getting the money. And when I was finally I had, you know, in a relationship that was positive, even though I was still very much addicted to work, I think, the ability to process what had happened, kind of its, I think my body or my psyche said, Okay, it's time, it's time to look at this, you know, and maybe taking the breaks off of work a little bit, forced me to look within, which sucked. Yes, or sucked, you know? Yeah. ehcache says that, you know, it takes more bravery to look within then it does to, to, for our soldier to step on the battlefield. And, you know, looking into our dark corners is scary as fuck. And I'm going to swear because I know you had Misha Shubaly.

And I love him.

Scared the shit out of me. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it was tough. And now, you know, I know. I'm still working with him.

Adina Silvestri 12:14
It's tough work. And I think that, you know, I see, I see my fair share of individuals with trauma, actually, I feel like, none of us survive childhood without some form of trauma, but, but I've seen my fair share of individuals with complex PTSD and, and it's hard to get them to look within because they have this fear that, you know, if I open this Pandora's box, there's, there's no going back, you know, I'm gonna just, I'm gonna, I'm gonna fall apart, I'm gonna have a breakdown. And it's really hard to get them to, to even do a little peek. You know,

Rob Imbeault 12:48
it's terrible, because you feel that you already a little piece thing that believes that you're broken. And if you acknowledge that, maybe you have to acknowledge that you're broken, which is hugely, hugely frightening. And I know I had it in my mindset that once I acknowledged it, I definitely believed I was broken. And I didn't understand the idea of integration, right? Like, I like how, when I did eventually work up the nerve to seek counseling, I went in with the idea of, you know, Eternal Sunshine, can we delete this guy just want to delete this part of my memory. And then so I can move on or, quote, unquote, deal with it. You know, which is not a thing, right? Or I guess to redefine deal with it is how to integrate. You know, those those things into who, who you are. And now, I almost look back. I'm not fondness but I like who I am now. I like the father. I like the husband. I like the friend. So I wouldn't change anything. You know, I like the evolution of me now. I love it.

Adina Silvestri 14:01
I love it. So you have this this flashback and you feel like it was because you you had some time, some downtime. And where were you when this flashback occurred? Did you reach out to anybody? You know, how did how did that evolve?

Rob Imbeault 14:20
Actually, coincidentally enough, I was reading Christopher Hitchens, God is not great. in bed with my wife and I was reading it and she was describing a Muslim woman being stoned to death because she had spoken to a man who wasn't her father, brother. And it it really upset me. Just like, how can be people be so cruel? And I was it just it triggered me and I just I turned to my wife and like, how, how can someone be Saudi? How can these people be so cruel? And then I said to a little boy, and she said, What? And then I said, What? And just then it kind of like the entire memory flushed back. Got me like I just started I just was overwhelmed with this. This wave of incredibly high definition memory and knowing what happened like, because I knew someone was in the room I knew someone who told me to shut up I'd like I can. And now the smell and the sound and my reaction, which was to listen, I didn't make a sound and cringe like the the awfulness the next day. Like it was all there and I I just ran to the washroom I was sick and I was catatonic I didn't speak for I think 48 hours and just sort of my, my, my then wife just sort of stood by me and just she didn't, I couldn't vocalize it, I couldn't articulate it. As I don't think there are words for what I was feeling at that point. And she just sort of, you know, kind of let it happen. And I just I went by I just sort of just, I went with it. I just sort of just didn't speak. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't want it. I didn't share it with anyone shared what little I could with my wife and, and I just sort of decided that I don't like it just kept repeating and repeating. And I just I didn't, I just I wanted that to stop. And it was physically painful. I just needed that to stop, which is why I decided, Okay, now I have to let her go. I have to let everyone go. And I need to do a bunch of things before I end my life, which is the title of the book, right? get things done before I leave you. And let people know why. It makes more sense to dive and then and, and I wholeheartedly believe in it. And I I knew I knew that it was the right thing to do because of what you know how I was feeling I couldn't see the world. The world is different. Right? So yeah. And then it's funny because I turned to just like a week later, it was exactly I was invited to go to Las Vegas, which I've never been in never wanted to go for a bachelor party because I introduced the groom and bride. And so I was in the midst of breaking up with my wife and I go to this magical, crazy, insane upside down place called Las Vegas with friends who show me how these bottle service stuff works. And I get I get into really into detail the world that I discover there. And then I had tried MDMA, with my wife, like five years prior and it just messed me up. I'm like, Okay, that was kind of fun. And I was I was anti drug for most of my life. I'm like, Oh, yeah, that's kind of fun. I don't really want to do that. I was anti alcohol for most of my life. And I know, I went from nursing a drink in Vegas to wondering how much how many, you know, pills we have left for for the night. And then the first night in the second night and a third night and then missing two flights back. And wow. It was, Oh, it was ridiculous. And you know, because with with ecstasy, life is perfect. You know, you'll love who you're with, because it doesn't matter where you live. Right? Because, you know, it's that manufactured happiness. And I think, like, it's funny because they're doing maps is doing psychedelic research and be amazed, you know, related. And they're doing MDMA psychotherapy, they're in their third phase of trials now, which is amazing. There's actually a great documentary trip of compassion, which shows people going into the these therapies and taking MDMA and pre processing it. And I think that was very much part of my journey. I just got

Adina Silvestri 18:51
there were no therapeutic interventions

involved in your journey.

Rob Imbeault 18:56
But yeah, I went from like, once every few weeks to every four days a week. I was high, for sure. And so I was either high or recovering from being high.

Adina Silvestri 19:10
And you were still running a business a successful business.

Rob Imbeault 19:13
Yeah, we're still growing, right? Like growing a business raising, you know, 100 million dollars, just like growing going from like me, my two partners, my my two co founders in my basement to now the company's has 600 people. Wow. And definitely, like, impacted that, you know, I grew incredibly ineffective. I know I went from speaking to graduating classes that you know, it colleges here to not being able to run my own meetings with five people. Yeah. I had no idea. I lost all my competence had no idea what was up there, which was, which was good because my seratonin was so unregulated, so I didn't know what was happy. was sad if, like, I didn't understand things. So I'm already in the middle of figuring out whether I belong there. Right. Like, like going from I was the the only engineer to growing a team of 30 engineers and being responsible and the complication involved, which is insane. Yeah, so alerts learn some valuable lessons on that side. But yeah.

Adina Silvestri 20:29
Yeah. So you go from nursing a drink in Vegas to being high or coming down from a high, like four days a week, you said, this is still you have this inner, this inner turmoil and you're still wanting to end your life, is that correct?

Rob Imbeault 20:47
Yeah, yeah. And I think the partying, I, I felt was a part of that in a few ways. One, just destroying my body, destroying my psyche. And, of course, the not having to deal with real life from I, but also spending all of my money. If I, like if I, if I have nothing in my savings account. And I have another, you know, bridge that's been burnt, you know, in ostracizing all the people that really loved me that saw, you know, what was going on, I had more of a reason to, to push me over the edge. And, you know, luckily, my, my two attempts were through one more throated by a friend. And actually, it's crazy. events that happened in the second time. And the first one, which is like the first chapter of the book,

which is available for free everywhere.

The first chapters anyway,

I think it was just an instinct, you know, I somehow managed to screw it up. Which, you know, either left me thinking that I wanted to live or that I was incompetent. So hating myself more was was a part of that. And I think that's, you know, the same with addiction, right? You, you start using and you start hating yourself, because you're using, not dealing with the underlying Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's more to do with that hatred and not addressing the underlying problem. Yeah. Yeah.

Adina Silvestri 22:25
Yeah. And so suicidal thoughts in and of themselves bring brings about shame. And so I can imagine that you weren't telling your besties You know, this isn't this is what's going on with me, or this is how I'm feeling.

Rob Imbeault 22:40
And no one knew. No one. I mean, and, you know, especially like, think of it as social media, we only post our best selves, right? So people are saying, look, Rob's in Vegas again. at this party, he's always surrounded by all these quote unquote, friends, you know, who is paying for? Like, so it definitely looks from the outside looking in, but you know, living my best life and are far from it. So I had a few people close to me, like my girlfriend at the time now wife, who I drugged down with me, just really begged us begged me to stop. And like we we have to stop and I know describe those moments. You know, can we just be boring? Can we just chill out? I just want to want to be boring. And that's what we did.

Adina Silvestri 23:38
Can you walk us through Robb that the the moment in which you said, You know what, I really don't want to die. You know, I want to live, you know, and how, yeah, what was that like for you?

Rob Imbeault 23:52
So, I mean, there is definitely a lot of steps. Yeah, I think subconsciously, I went, I sought therapy, I found someone. And I, I interviewed a bunch of therapists, you know, you know, and I think that it has to be such a good fit. So I interviewed people because I wanted it like, I was gonna go in properly. I want to go do this. I'm going to be fucking raw and honest as possible, and see what this person can do for me. Yeah, so and I went in and I just was full of shit. And if any therapist could not see through that, I wouldn't go back. And it wasn't to me. Yeah, like I convinced one person that I was I had that romantic love of horses and, and someone else, you know, I described this blue dress monster and the therapist was actually wearing a blue dress and she didn't get it. I was just like, Okay, well, you're not gonna get it. You know, I I think I just arrogant I think I wanted someone to be more intelligent than I was because I needed to be One needed to be the one to be fixed. And then I found and my therapist who, you know, I have to do like a double PhD. And like within 15 minutes, she's like, I don't care how full of shit are you? You know if you're gonna said that? Yeah, yeah, wow. Well, I think she said, if you're gonna bullshit, I just want to let you know that i cost a lot and it'll be really, it might be a waste of money for you. I was like, okay, okay. And I cried in that like first like session and I'm like, ah, I guess I have the keeper.

Adina Silvestri 25:37
Wrap. How did you find her? Was it like a referral?

Rob Imbeault 25:42
No, just the internet. Here's the funniest thing like, she literally, he lived in the building I lived in which only had 55 units. And her office was across the street. And I'd like I'd seen these five other people from across the city. And I'd have to figure out traffic's I lived, you know, downtown. And, yeah, I had to like, whatever. And then I discover her I found a paper she wrote. And I was like, oh, wow, this is actually incredibly intelligent. Because I can't get it. I have no idea what she's saying. So I have Yeah, literally. And when I told her that she's like, by the way, if I see you over there, I have to tell you that I'm just gonna say hi, as a neighbor, no, just because the patient doctor confidentiality stuff. I'm like, Okay. And then yeah, just literally just found her online. And she did things that like she, she made it, okay. She's like, if you need to take ecstasy, that's fine. You know, do your thing you do you. But right. Before you do, can you please write down? Why, you know, are you having catastrophic thoughts? And just list down and, you know, to her credit, that's brilliant. You know, how many you don't you don't want to rebel. If you you're allowed to rebel. It's not rebelling. You know, like, I mean, I'm allowed. And I wouldn't say it prevented me every time. But it did prevent me a few times. And I think that was a part of her genius, her plan. But also I was now I'm looking at myself, all of a sudden, yeah. Doing though. And it was she was the one who got me to do the inner child work. So which I had no idea and had, you probably asked if I believed in it. You know, my 30s I would have said, That's ridiculous. But writing with my right hand to a little boy, and then responding, you know, writing with my left hand from his perspective.

Holy shit.

heartbreaking. Holy, but I'll leave like, revelatory. I still do it. By the way. I still do it. Yeah, I'm trouble. I do. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I with with the book, the book being out, is triggering. and has since retired, I did find someone, someone new that I happened upon, which is great. And she's turned me on to a men's group, which is great. And I wanted to do, partly that was because the book is coming out. And no one knew. My mom didn't know. Wow, my thought my father on the found out maybe a few weeks ago. Wow. Yeah. So yeah, cuz they and through the book, right. So and that being out. If we step back, like, I wrote the Goodbye, and then I decided to finish, you know, my series of kind of like just my own chronology. And it really, I didn't finish a book or anything, it just sort of finished this long piece of work, because writing was my therapy. Because that could be vulnerable without being vulnerable in writing, because I didn't have to show it to anyone. And then when I showed it to my girlfriend, she's just, she's just, you know, you should probably share this because this is going to help a lot of people. And so she encouraged me to finish it as a finished book. And which is ironic, because she's a very private person. Yeah. But she's very much a part of this book. You know, she's the hero, really. So, so I know, I'm writing about my deepest, darkest secrets. And she's kind of there, you know? Yeah. She's very much there. And her becoming, you know, going from each other's cheerleaders are enablers, enabling each other's cheerleaders. Right. And we were definitely each other's enablers, especially Thursday nights. I'm like, oh, Thursday. It's a whole new weekend. Because I'm, you know, Tuesday morning, we said, we're never going to do this again. But Thursday night, there's always a reason to go out. And yeah, turning that completely around and being each other's cheerleaders and yeah, just in each other's corner.

Adina Silvestri 29:58
Grab What do you think? I'm curious about you finding a therapist, because that takes a lot of courage. And at that point you were, you weren't sure you wanted to live.

Rob Imbeault 30:12
Yeah. So like I said, I think that was subconscious I, I was just in pain all the time. And the drugs helps me. And I think I definitely want it to live on some some level, some level. But I didn't acknowledge it. I was still completely plant even even talking to an I was still in the back of my mind. I'm like, Well, I can probably fall back on killing myself. And it's probably a good idea anyway, because I don't think anybody can fix this. So I just I just decided to try it. And I mean, part of it. My ex wife still cared deeply about me, even though I treated her treated her so badly. She really pushed me like she did come over because she knew, oh, wow, you'd like she came over and she'd like, we'd think we'd hang out. And then she'd leave. And she'd go to one of my best friends were living the same building. He went, she went down and said, I'm really worried about Rob, can you keep an eye on him? And he didn't like her. And he's like, yeah, Rob sign, Rob sign, don't worry about it. Because he didn't know. And so, you know, I just, I had that fall back. And it again, it was a lot of steps back. But I was there was momentum going forward, that I wanted to be around and there was a conscious Revelation where I just said, you know, what I want to live and I got it, I got to stop, I got to figure out how to live and kind of flick the switch. Where I want to live in this is how I do it. And I slept a lot. And I forgave myself and, you know, I studied different things I got really got into Tim Ferriss, you know, with that whole quantified self, you know, measure it and prove it type thing. Which is topical right now, because Tim Ferriss podcast yesterday, you know, he announced that he was sexually abused, and it was Wow, incredibly, incredibly triggering and difficult to hear. That's weird. So I set up another appointment with my therapist, you know, after after yesterday, because it is triggering, and it is figure that out. So yeah, I did want to live at some point and started to move forward that way, you know, and, you know, I didn't have any 12 steps. But I think I checked off most of the boxes. You know, I think the whole spirituality is a nebulous thing. And it's very, it's deeply personal. So, you know, I, I fell in love with Buddhist doctrine, just the philosophy, a foundation part, not really any of the magic. And what Buddha said, essentially, which is, you know, if you just if you just had a great framework for living, you know, a good life, that's it. That's nothing to do with the other what it's become, you know, with all these branches, so, yeah, and I had a sponsor and my wife was, yep, we were each other's sponsor, which was great. And yeah, I lost 70 pounds, just wow, learning, learning nutrition and executing it properly. And then yeah, and we got married. We got married in Vegas.

Adina Silvestri 33:46
Was that on purpose?

Rob Imbeault 33:49
Yeah, I mean, it's funny because I asked my wife, my girlfriend to marry me. We weren't together at the time we had broken up because I had broken up because I was decided to end my life. But then while we were broken up, but we were together, I just didn't like I don't want it. And I said, You know what, I think we should just write and she said, okay, but you have to sell this penthouse downtown, no more party, we're gonna go move to the suburbs. We're going to quiet down. We're gonna live a boring life. And I said, Okay, and our last hurrah was Vegas. We actually, you know, got married. Two weeks later, we took our parents and our siblings, and yeah, got married at the littlest Church of the West. where her parents got married 40 years prior and funny. So and then we did we did it all. And then we we slipped, of course, as we do, but as soon as she was pregnant, it was zero tolerance. Yeah, so we haven't looked back and now, now we have two little girls.

Adina Silvestri 34:51
Okay.

Yeah, that's quite the story. I encourage everyone to get the book but before we sort of wrap up today. Rob, I'm wondering if maybe we could talk just about finding hope. Because I think that when you have these suicidal thoughts, you feel like, the only way to make that suffering and the pain go away is to end your life. But, but there's always a part of you, you have to find it. But there's always going to be a part of you that wants that wants to live. And you mentioned the internal family systems parts work a couple of times in this in this podcast, I'm wondering if you could talk to us a little bit about that.

Rob Imbeault 35:33
Yeah, I mean, I'm deeply logical, and whether you attribute it to Persian fables, this too shall pass or Buddhist doctrine, we can always rely on things changing. So at the darkest moments, you can hold on to that you can say, you know, things are not always going to be this way. And so things will, will change and, and I mean, there's the flip side of that coin, things will always not be as blissful, which encourages you to to savor those moments as well. I think that was an underlying belief of mine, and like, this can't possibly be like this all the time. Even though I was in pain, and I, I never wanted to say that I never wanted to complain or whine be like, in pain all the time. Like, it's not something that I respect. I don't like it. I don't like to be a complainer.

Adina Silvestri 36:28
Yeah, men, men don't cry.

Rob Imbeault 36:31
Oh, man. So my, one of my next projects I'm working on now is about masculinity. And it's, yeah, boy, boys don't cry. But, and we know, that dogma leads to men, that those emotions coming out in different ways, which is usually violence and aggression. So, yeah, like, I'm now I'm just, I'm not a big crier, you know, so it's like two little girls I, like I'm going to be 100% human me, with with with them. So, and being vulnerable. I mean, another thing about, you know, releasing all of my details is that I no longer have masks. Right. So everything is out cards are on the table, you see who I am. And so as long as I'm vulnerable and honest, then how people react to it is on now. So, I mean, going back to, to that hope, I mean, things will get better. That's just how things work. things always change. And you can inch it to where you want to go. Right now. I think small habits make big differences. And just learning how I was not a proponent of therapy, but now like huge proponent of therapy, or a counselor, right? Yeah, I mean, having someone to talk to and ask questions and to frame things that you wouldn't have reframed could really, really, really help. And now to give more hope, there's so much available, right? There's EMDR. There's their sound therapy, there's neurofeedback training, there's so much research in psychedelic research right with with, you know, Washington and MDMA or psilocybin and MDMA and LSD and not suggesting to do that illegally. Please do not. Yeah, I mean, the message is that there are so many ways to get better now. And there's so many people willing to help. I'm one of them. You know, I I answer every email through my website. So, you know, I love the it was difficult for a while, but it is triggering, but if I can help, then, you know, this whole journey is worthwhile. Yeah, and fulfilling.

Adina Silvestri 39:02
That is probably a great place to end. So wrap, how can people get a hold of you in more importantly, how can they find this book? Because I feel like you had mentioned in one of our previous talks that some of the proceeds go to the men's group that you're in,

Rob Imbeault 39:19
right? Yeah, it took me eight months to get into my my men's group because of lack of funding. So yeah, directing Yeah, proceeds to go to them that my book is available in all you know, in all versions, so there's there's an audio book which is pretty funny because it's done by a voice actor. And just to let you know that there is a little bit of dark humor. In my book, I wrote it kind of as dark humor and the voice actor is that who asked that and like yeah, we're gonna hire that guy cuz he gets it. So this so it is an audio book. It's in Kindle. It's in hardcover, and paperback, Amazon, Barnes and Noble wherever you get Books, especially now online, if you want to go to before I leave you calm, I bought that because people can't spell my name. I'm also selling signed copies because I have all these promos. Because then with COVID, I can't do book signings. And the proceeds of that are all going to men's group, which is, it's the treatment center for childhood trauma here in Ottawa, in my city as well. And then I will be directing some things to come out. And the future, which is the research for psychedelic research. Yeah, before I leave you calm, and it has all my socials on their Instagrams, Robin Bo, I'm on Facebook, I don't have Instagram, it gives me anxiety. So I am quite regular on on Twitter, you know, it's all on my phone or anything. But I do get on there every day and stuff. And I answer all emails from through my website.

Adina Silvestri 40:54
That sounds amazing. And I'm sure that a lot of people will be reaching out. So thank you. Thank you for that. Wrap. It's been a pleasure. And I hope we get to do this again when your next book comes out.

Rob Imbeault 41:08
Yeah, that would be wonderful. Thanks so much for having me on your show. And thank you for your show. It's I think it's really important.

Adina Silvestri 41:14
Thank you, Rob. Have a good one. Thanks. One more thing, guys, before you go, if you are struggling with thoughts of suicide, know that you are not alone. Make sure that you tell someone, someone that you care about someone that you trust. And if you're struggling with telling someone please do call the suicide national suicide number at 1-800-273-8255. There are trained individuals there that are willing to listen again that number is 1-800-273-8255. Again, you are not alone.

Music 41:54
Thank you for listening to the Atheists in Recovery podcast. For more great info and to stay up to date. Head over to atheists and recovery.com